Damn, you made me want to rewatch that season, as if I did not have too much to watch already! But a big shout out to the first appearance of River Song, as I am deeply in love with this out-of-sync story, even if it got messy towards the end/beginning 😁
And so glad to have you on Episodic Medium for the return of RTD. See you there!
i agree with stolen earth and journeys end probably served better as a 3 parter because with so manyyy characters its hard for them to well interact! rtd has admitted it was hard for him to write the rose ending in journeys end cause well knowing her character she would never just be like well see ya to the doctor im hoping we get a one off tv movie or mini series of tentoo/rose adventures in petes world
I just feel like there's a way to make the Rose/TenToo story so romantic and still so devastating, and it's forever frustrating to me that RTD didn't quite nail it.
More than anything, I think we needed to see Rose and TenToo actually interact throughout the episode—establish their own dynamic; actively prove he's like her Doctor only more emotionally available. (Like the scenes TenToo and Donn share, which are a delight.) And then TenToo should be the one leading the beach scene while Ten watches on sadly. You'd still have the fundamental tension and weirdness and sadness, but more sweetness and romance to balance it out too. And since Rose would have her own burgeoning dynamic with TenToo, it would feel more like she's making a (difficult!) choice rather than receiving him as a weird, semi-unwanted present.
lol idk how im just seeing this now! but i agree i wish we saw more i understand like he had 45 minutes or whatever and so much to do i hope we get something with them to see it i highly doubt it now since tennant was 14 we do get that moment on the tardis where rose gives him a look but yeah fundamentally i wish we got to see the dynamic a bit more
I think I enjoyed Turn Left a little less than you but overall, I think I’m in a similar boat to you!
Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead is up there with The Satan Pit/Impossible Planet that are both the best of what I’ve seen so far (first time watcher here) and also some pretty transcendently good sci-fi.
I was trying to articulate after finishing why Donna is my favorite companion so far (I’ve seen Rose, Martha, Ruby, and one season of 13’s companions) by a mile and I think you articulate it well — she’s an adult, maybe not perfect but she’s had life experience and knows herself well. This lets her be the Doctor’s peer — they can really be friends because her being wowed by him in no way affects how she views herself. I feel like for most of the other companions, Rose and Martha especially, so much of their own identity is caught up in how the Doctor perceives them and so they can never be truly independent. None of Donna’s identity is caught up in the Doctor though. More than just being a different dynamic on an interpersonal level, I think that Donna’s independence also functions on a plot level. She feels so fully realized that she has her own circle of gravity where she can have her own arcs, challenge the Doctor, go off on her own, and not have the audience automatically gravitate back towards the doctor’s perspective/plotline. I’m not sure how well I’ve articulated this but I think it’s interesting and from what little of I know of what to come, seems like a disappointingly underused Doctor/Companion dynamic going forward.
While I’m overthinking Companion character arcs, I think it’s interesting that the “course-correction” for Matha (I think you could argue over how/whether/why a course correction was needed for Martha but it seems clear that the show at least was trying to change tack) was to turn her into a more militarized/action version of her character that more or less dispensed with her career as a doctor. I don’t have anything especially deep her to note but do feel its worth highlighting as I think it’s a common course in action shows to, when they have a character that isn’t quite working, to give them an action-overhaul so that they can be more tightly tied to the main plot (i.e., James in Supergirl, most of the side characters in S3/4 of Arrow, more examples that I’m just not thinking of now…). While it sometimes works, I think it’s an easy way out and often results in flattening the character rather than taking the same character, spikes and all, and making them work in the plot. With Martha, it sort of feels like the writers decided she wasn’t working so they would make her into Action-Martha but without necessarily putting in the work to figure out to fix what wasn’t clicking in the first place. As such, though we get little glimpses of the friction between Martha being a doctor and the military units she’s embedded in, we don’t get as much more depth with Action-Martha as we should be.
(Having seen the new David Tennant/Catherine Tate specials before this, the resolution to Donna’s arc here feels incredibly rushed and verging on problematic. It’s frustrating that both Rose and Donna are underserved so close to the ends of their arcs. But I’m now extra glad Donna got to return!)
Have you written about "The Power of the Doctor" anywhere? I think that's the only gap missing between The AV Club and Episodic medium. Looking forward to the specials!
Damn, you made me want to rewatch that season, as if I did not have too much to watch already! But a big shout out to the first appearance of River Song, as I am deeply in love with this out-of-sync story, even if it got messy towards the end/beginning 😁
And so glad to have you on Episodic Medium for the return of RTD. See you there!
i agree with stolen earth and journeys end probably served better as a 3 parter because with so manyyy characters its hard for them to well interact! rtd has admitted it was hard for him to write the rose ending in journeys end cause well knowing her character she would never just be like well see ya to the doctor im hoping we get a one off tv movie or mini series of tentoo/rose adventures in petes world
I just feel like there's a way to make the Rose/TenToo story so romantic and still so devastating, and it's forever frustrating to me that RTD didn't quite nail it.
More than anything, I think we needed to see Rose and TenToo actually interact throughout the episode—establish their own dynamic; actively prove he's like her Doctor only more emotionally available. (Like the scenes TenToo and Donn share, which are a delight.) And then TenToo should be the one leading the beach scene while Ten watches on sadly. You'd still have the fundamental tension and weirdness and sadness, but more sweetness and romance to balance it out too. And since Rose would have her own burgeoning dynamic with TenToo, it would feel more like she's making a (difficult!) choice rather than receiving him as a weird, semi-unwanted present.
lol idk how im just seeing this now! but i agree i wish we saw more i understand like he had 45 minutes or whatever and so much to do i hope we get something with them to see it i highly doubt it now since tennant was 14 we do get that moment on the tardis where rose gives him a look but yeah fundamentally i wish we got to see the dynamic a bit more
I think I enjoyed Turn Left a little less than you but overall, I think I’m in a similar boat to you!
Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead is up there with The Satan Pit/Impossible Planet that are both the best of what I’ve seen so far (first time watcher here) and also some pretty transcendently good sci-fi.
I was trying to articulate after finishing why Donna is my favorite companion so far (I’ve seen Rose, Martha, Ruby, and one season of 13’s companions) by a mile and I think you articulate it well — she’s an adult, maybe not perfect but she’s had life experience and knows herself well. This lets her be the Doctor’s peer — they can really be friends because her being wowed by him in no way affects how she views herself. I feel like for most of the other companions, Rose and Martha especially, so much of their own identity is caught up in how the Doctor perceives them and so they can never be truly independent. None of Donna’s identity is caught up in the Doctor though. More than just being a different dynamic on an interpersonal level, I think that Donna’s independence also functions on a plot level. She feels so fully realized that she has her own circle of gravity where she can have her own arcs, challenge the Doctor, go off on her own, and not have the audience automatically gravitate back towards the doctor’s perspective/plotline. I’m not sure how well I’ve articulated this but I think it’s interesting and from what little of I know of what to come, seems like a disappointingly underused Doctor/Companion dynamic going forward.
While I’m overthinking Companion character arcs, I think it’s interesting that the “course-correction” for Matha (I think you could argue over how/whether/why a course correction was needed for Martha but it seems clear that the show at least was trying to change tack) was to turn her into a more militarized/action version of her character that more or less dispensed with her career as a doctor. I don’t have anything especially deep her to note but do feel its worth highlighting as I think it’s a common course in action shows to, when they have a character that isn’t quite working, to give them an action-overhaul so that they can be more tightly tied to the main plot (i.e., James in Supergirl, most of the side characters in S3/4 of Arrow, more examples that I’m just not thinking of now…). While it sometimes works, I think it’s an easy way out and often results in flattening the character rather than taking the same character, spikes and all, and making them work in the plot. With Martha, it sort of feels like the writers decided she wasn’t working so they would make her into Action-Martha but without necessarily putting in the work to figure out to fix what wasn’t clicking in the first place. As such, though we get little glimpses of the friction between Martha being a doctor and the military units she’s embedded in, we don’t get as much more depth with Action-Martha as we should be.
(Having seen the new David Tennant/Catherine Tate specials before this, the resolution to Donna’s arc here feels incredibly rushed and verging on problematic. It’s frustrating that both Rose and Donna are underserved so close to the ends of their arcs. But I’m now extra glad Donna got to return!)
Thank you for doing these!
Have you written about "The Power of the Doctor" anywhere? I think that's the only gap missing between The AV Club and Episodic medium. Looking forward to the specials!
It's the only episode of the Whittaker era I didn't review, sadly, but I did do this Twitter thread with some of my thoughts on it https://twitter.com/CarolineSiede/status/1586441427260952576
(I also reviewed "Legend of the Sea Devils" for FOX 5 NY, but I often just forget that episode even happened https://www.fox5ny.com/news/doctor-who-review-legend-of-the-sea-devils)
also turn left and midnight are my top 2 of the season but yeah lol